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04 April 2005 @ 05:42 pm
Voluntary Human Extinction  
Really - I just don't get it. Do these people honestly hate humanity that much?
 
 
 
yohocoma on May 14th, 2005 08:11 am (UTC)
>Memetically speaking, I would say the idea of a complete suppression of reproduction is damn near impossible - it violates several of the most basic memes we possess, not to mention what little instinctual urges humans possess. Successful transmission of this meme requires consciousness evolution on a level that, if we as a species possessed it, would make the idea of voluntary extinction completely unnecesary.


Doesn't collective consciousness evolve by introduction of new memes which, sometimes surprisingly, take root? Present and coming externalities may gradually (or quickly) help along the process of this particular meme's acceptance....


>>The ultimate in minimizing your consumption is not propagating yourself (i.e., ensuring you will not become vicariously immortal). End of story.

>I don't agree with the nihilism inherent in that statement - the interdependence of the organisms on Earth guarantees that everything consumes, and everything produces. It would take a supreme awareness to completely realize the impact of all the choices we make to minimize our impact, and which ones are "good" or "bad". This is why I can't believe in veganism as a lifestyle choice, and why I don't believe in the Jainist philosophy of consumption. I don't believe in our ability to save or damn the Earth - I think that idea smacks of the hubris of human superiority.


It seems to me then that you believe two things. One, human impact on the earth is not out of kilter with the rest of the animal kingdom's - we're all approximately equal partners in the "everything consumes, and everything produces" merry cycle. And two, since we aren't gods and we can't foresee every consequence of our actions, we should take no actions to even attempt to minimize our impact - never can tell which ones will turn out to be bad.

Besides the effect on domesticated animals which humans created, and on a small number of known parasitic or symbiotic species (mostly microorganisms), and maybe some unattended nukes going off here and there, how would humans' intentional disappearance from the scene possibly adversely affect the balance of life on earth?
Hoc Est Qui Sumusdiscoflamingo on May 14th, 2005 09:54 am (UTC)
Doesn't collective consciousness evolve by introduction of new memes which, sometimes surprisingly, take root? Present and coming externalities may gradually (or quickly) help along the process of this particular meme's acceptance....

A new memeplex must supplant the processes and benefits of the existing memeplex by proving advantage over the existing meme. The most basic meme is propagating your species, which is less memetic than it is hardwired instinct, since propagation of yourself (and , by extension, your species) is a useful survival trait that has, by definition, served you with great benefit your entire life. Voluntary extinction of your genetic line is difficult to overcome without extensive memetic de/re-programming, or a quantum leap in consciousness evolution across the cultures of Earth not likely to occur any time soon.

Besides the effect on domesticated animals which humans created, and on a small number of known parasitic or symbiotic species (mostly microorganisms), and maybe some unattended nukes going off here and there, how would humans' intentional disappearance from the scene possibly adversely affect the balance of life on earth?

Humans should not be so arrogant to believe they can fundamentally alter the balance of life on Earth. We can upset the balance, but it will rebalance itself,whether or not we are here. There is little we can do in the next 4.5 billion years to prevent this from occurring.